CADAL “Eureka! . . . ” (more on SB 1312)
[be sure to read comments below!]
Tonight I found this site called CADAL which stands for California Designers Against Legislation and their clever tagline is “Eureka! We have found the truth!” (maybe they have, maybe they haven’t, it’s up to each individual to read it for themselves and decide) …… This web site is focused on opposing SB 1312. It’s not very large and looks kinda new but it’s packed with id turf war articles and white papers. One blog entry is called The Running Dogs of Interior Design and I have to side with commentator “Clifford, AIA” where he says NCARB is worse than ASID. Heh.
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Brent. There are two issues with this statement. The first is that, there are no restrictions in this bill. Unlike other states that restricted the title of Interior Design or huge portions of Interior Design, this one does neither.
The second on is that if you are going to give scope of practice to anyone there has to be linkage to the oversight and regulation. Seems that the public has been left out of this discussion. Should they not have a place to go should issues arise?
The only truly legitimate reasons for government regulation of any business are to protect the public from dangers to health and safety or fraud. But those who want to legislate their competition out of business constantly misuse those principles – with never-ending efforts by some interior designers to restrict competition for clients through state licensing being another example.”
Dan Walters, Sacramento Bee, May 9, 2008
Comment by Bruce Goff | May 18, 2008 |
Brent, thanks for mentioning the CADAL site. It will be updated regularly as there are changes in the California legislation situation, in order to keep everyone apprised of the full truth and any necessary ongoing contact information, so please spread the word.
Comment by Wendy Hoechstetter | May 18, 2008 |
Bruce,
>> The first is that, there are no restrictions in this bill. Unlike other states that restricted the title of Interior Design or huge portions of Interior Design, this one does neither. <> (f) “Interior design” means a multifaceted profession in which
creative and technical solutions are applied within a structure to
achieve a built interior environment. These solutions are functional
and enhance the quality of life and culture of the occupants. <> Interior
design includes, but is not limited to, both of the following:
(1) The creation of designs, in response to and in coordination
with the building shell, that acknowledge the physical location and
social context of a project, adhere to code and regulatory
requirements, and encourage the principles of environmental
sustainability.
(2) The use of a systematic and coordinated methodology,
including research, analysis, and integration of knowledge into the
creative process, to satisfy the needs of a client, using the resources
of the client, in order to produce an interior space that fulfills a
project’s goals. <> 5703. “Registered interior design” or “practice of registered
interior design” means the rendering of services to enhance the
quality and function of an interior area within a structure designed
for human habitation or occupancy, and includes, [b]but is not limited
to, all of the following[/b] (my emphasis):
(a) [b]An analysis of a client’s needs and goals for the interior area[/b]<> and an analysis of the safety requirements applicable to that area.
(b) The formulation of appropriate, functional, and safe
preliminary designs, [b]including space planning[/b], for the interior area.<> (c) The development and presentation of final designs, including,
but not limited to, [b]drawings affecting nonstructural or nonseismic
elements or components[/b], that are appropriate for the alteration or
construction of the interior area.<> (d) The preparation of [b]contract documents[/b] for the alteration or
construction of the interior area, [b]including, but not limited to,
specifications for partitions, materials, finishes, furniture, fixtures,
and equipment[/b].<> (e) Collaboration with professional engineers registered pursuant
to Chapter 7 (commencing with Section 6700) or architects licensed
pursuant to Chapter 3 (commencing with Section 5500) for the
alteration or construction of the interior area.
(f) The preparation and administration of bids or contract
documents for the alteration or construction of the interior area as
the agent of a client. <> (g) The review and evaluation of problems relating to the design
of the interior area during the alteration or construction of the area
and upon completion of that alteration or construction. <> 5704. (a) This chapter shall not apply to any of the following:
(1) An architect licensed pursuant to Chapter 3 (commencing
with Section 5500) acting within the scope of his or her license.
(2) A person engaging in work related to registered interior
design as an employee of a registered interior designer if the work
does not include responsible supervisory control or supervision of
the practice of registered interior design. <> (3) A person performing registered interior design work under
the responsible supervisory control of a registered interior designer.<> (4) A consultant retained by a registered interior designer. <> (5) A person who prepares drawings of the layout of materials
or furnishings used in registered interior design or provides
assistance in the selection of materials or furnishings used in
registered interior design, if the preparation or implementation of
those drawings, or the installation of those materials or furnishings,
is not regulated by a building code or other law, ordinance, rule,
or regulation governing the alteration or construction of a structure.<> The persons exempt from this chapter pursuant to this paragraph
include, but are not limited to, a person who prepares drawings of
the layout of, or provides assistance in the selection of, any of the
following materials:
(A) Decorative accessories.
(B) Wallpaper, wallcoverings, or paint.
(C) Linoleum, tile, carpeting, or floor coverings.
(D) Draperies, blinds, or window coverings.
(E) Lighting or plumbing fixtures that are not part of a structure.
(F) Furniture or equipment. <> (6) An employee of a retail establishment providing consultation
regarding interior decoration or furnishings on the premises of the
retail establishment or in the furtherance of a retail sale or
prospective retail sale. <<
You are going around the state telling people that this means that anyone who works in a retail environment will be exempted, implying that as long as they’re working for, say, Ethan Allan, they’ll still be able to go out and practice full-service interior design. And I know you’re doing this, because I heard you say it my own self.
By the actual language here, that’s not the case at all, though. They’ll only be able to do *consultation* – and only with respect to making a particular retail sale.
This is certainly not what I or anyone else I know considers “interior design”.
So, basically, what we’ve got here is a definition of our profession that includes virtually everything we all know very well that it does include – and a list of exemptions that is either as full of holes as Swiss cheese as Brent has pointed out – or is so ambiguous as to be absolutely indecipherable as to what it *really* means. It is certainly full of all kinds of contradictions with the definition of “interior design”.
Bruce, you tout these exemptions like they’ll allow anyone who wants to to continue to practice interior design without being registered, but the reality is it will be a title without any content.
You can continue to call this gutted thing anything you want to, but the reality is that the only things a person who does not pursue registration will be allowed to do is *maybe* specify furniture and wallcoverings and the like – and only in a residential environment. What’s left after the definition of “registered interior design” isn’t even the full extent of what we consider to be the realm of decorators.
You repeatedly claim that registration is “voluntary”, but the only thing that’s even remotely voluntary is whether or not a person will stay in the field and jump through the very onerous hoops laid out by SB 1312 or not.
The reality is a huge percentage of designers will be forced out of business by SB 1312, and there won’t be enough left who qualify to provide jobs for those who want to remain and “upgrade” their skills.
There most assuredly won’t be enough jobs available to ensure that the students coming out of school will have anywhere to work – and you and IDCC and ASID are doing them a GIGANTIC disservice in telling them that registration will benefit them, when in fact, they will find themselves with useless degrees, unable to find jobs, and unable to work on their own.
In the California North chapter of ASID, there are about 619 members. Of this number, about 70 (or 11%) are professional members, and only 63 of those are CIDs. Most of these people were grandfathered in, and don’t even meet the educational and supervised work experience requirements themselves that they are now demanding that everyone else meet.
Another 30% are Allied members or industry partners – and most of the remaining *40%* are students.
Only about 3% of all interior designers are associated in any way with ASID, and a large percentage of them would likely not meet requirements for registration. Of an estimate of anywhere from 112,000 – 200,000 designers nationwide, something like only *4,000* will be even remotely eligible for any kind of registration or licensing.
Our best estimates, since no one keeps track of these data for various reasons, is that at most 10-20% of these people would ever qualify for any sort of licensing or registration in any state.
In California alone, where there are only about 4,000 ASID members total (I don’t have the exact figures or a calculator in front of me at the moment, so my numbers here are not exact), that means that only about *400* will be able to meet these requirements – obviously far, far fewer than the estimated 30,000+ designers in the entire state.
Now I ask you, how is this even remotely voluntary, when so many people will not meet the requirements, and will have to go out of business, or find jobs with other people in order to remain in practice?
Even assuming they were all willing and able to do so from a financial point of view (which is obviously a complete fantasy), how are *400* eligible designers ever possibly going to be able to employ all of these people?
Leaving aside the question of how ASID turned into an organization with so few real professional members, and one which soundly ignores the desires and best interests of the majority of its membership base, what this translates to is only a very tiny proportion of interior designers will ever benefit from a bill like this – so what is the *real* motivation?
And even assuming that you are right, that this is completely voluntary, and that people will still be able to practice interior design without being registered (which I’ve just shown to be blatantly false), then what’s the point of the whole thing?
It would have been great if ASID had taken the $6,000,000 or so that it’s spent trying to promote anti-competitive legislation like this and used it to actually educate the public about what we designers do. That would do far more to promote interior design as a profession than any amount of legislation.
You and ASID and IDCC continually talk about how important it is to have legislation to make us a profession, but true professionalism is not a function of titles or legislation, and doesn’t even have to do with whether one is paid for one’s work or not. True professionalism is determined by how one comports oneself and conducts one’s business.
[b]If designers are not skilled, creative, and also competent business people who routinely comply with required codes and comport themselves in a professional manner [i]because they are internally motivated to do so[/i], then no amount of legislation or titles or letters after their names will ever turn them into [i]true[/i] professionals.[/b]
And if designers persist in trying to submit plans that overstep their bounds and encompass structural or seismic work, then of course those plans will be turned down. It is a fantasy to believe that building departments will not accept plans from interior designers, because neither the CBC nor the architectural legislation in any way prohibits them from doing so – or requires any kind of registration or licensing.
In fact, the same architectural code that you claim we work under an exemption of, protects us quite widely – and also allows [b]laypeople[/b] to submit plans under a fairly broad set of circumstances. I am in possession of letters from both the California Architects Board and CALBO stating their full agreement that our ability to submit plans is in no way in jeopardy, and fully supporting our doing so on an ongoing basis, and verifying that we will certainly be able to do so [u]statewide[/u] on an ongoing basis.
If anyone would like to see copies of these letters, please email info@cadal-info.org until such time as they are made available on the CADAL website.
The only thing this kind of legislation can possibly do is put people out of work, who will in many cases end up on the welfare rolls.
It will discourage people from entering the field, because they will not be able to find jobs.
It will also create a situation in which design services and products become so expensive that only the superwealthy will be able to afford them.
Many suppliers will also be put out of business, because there won’t be enough designers left to continue to specify their products. It is estimated that no fewer than 30 industries will be adversely affected. (See “List of Businesses Negatively Affected” at http://www.cadal-info.org/legislation.html)
As the resources dry up because suppliers and contractors go out of business, the prices for what will remain will also skyrocket. This is simple Economics 101 – supply and demand – and is not rocket science to figure out.
In short, what legislation such as SB 1312 will ultimately accomplish in the long run is to return interior design to being a highly elitist profession, a service that only the superwealthy can afford, and which only a very small segment of the population will be able to service.
Is any of this [u]really[/u] what most of us want for our profession?
Comment by Wendy Hoechstetter | May 18, 2008 |
Wow
Comment by brentwilliams | May 18, 2008 |
Exemptions in SB 1312 Who the exemption affects
5704. (a) This chapter shall not apply to any of the following:
(1) An architect licensed pursuant to Chapter 3 (commencing with Section 5500) acting within the scope of his or her license. Architect
(2) A person engaging in work related to registered interior design as an employee of a registered interior designer if the work does not include responsible supervisory control or supervision of the practice of registered interior design. Interior Designer
(3) A person performing registered interior design work under the responsible supervisory control of a registered interior designer. Registered Interior Designer
(4) A consultant retained by a registered interior designer. Outside Consultant
(5) A person who prepares drawings of the layout of materials or furnishings used in registered interior design or provides assistance in the selection of materials or furnishings used in registered interior design, if the preparation or implementation of those drawings, or the installation of those materials or furnishings, is not regulated by a building code or other law, ordinance, rule, or regulation governing the alteration or construction of a structure. The persons exempt from this chapter pursuant to this paragraph include, but are not limited to, a person who prepares drawings of the layout of, or provides assistance in the selection of, any of the following materials: (A) Decorative accessories. (B) Wallpaper, wallcoverings, or paint. (C) Linoleum, tile, carpeting, or floor coverings. (D) Draperies, blinds, or window coverings. (E) Lighting or plumbing fixtures that are not part of a structure. (F) Furniture or equipment. DraftspersonInterior DesignerInterior DecoratorKitchen DesignerBath Designer
(6) An employee of a retail establishment providing consultation regarding interior decoration or furnishings on the premises of the retail establishment or in the furtherance of a retail sale or prospective retail sale. Small and Large Stores such as Home Improvement, Furniture, Flooring, Lighting, Etc.
(b) (1) Notwithstanding subdivision (a), a person shall not refer to himself or herself as a registered interior designer without being registered pursuant to this chapter.
(2) This subdivision does not prohibit a person certified or otherwise qualified or approved by a private organization from using a term or title copyrighted or otherwise protected under law by the certifying organization provided that the use of that term or title does not connote registration under this chapter. NKBA, Home Stagers, Redesigners, Feng Shui Practitioners, Etc.
(c) The exemptions created by this section shall not absolve a person from any civil or criminal liability that might otherwise accrue.
5705. (a) This chapter does not prohibit a person from preparing plans, drawings, or specifications for any of the following:
(1) Single-family dwellings of woodframe construction not more than two stories and basement in height. Architects, Building Designers, General Contractors, Interior Designers/Decorators, NKBA, Draftsperson, Etc.
2) Multiple dwellings containing no more than four dwelling units of woodframe construction not more than two stories and basement in height. However, this paragraph shall not be construed as allowing an unregistered person to design multiple clusters of up to four dwelling units each to form apartment or condominium complexes where the total exceeds four units on any lawfully divided lot. Same as Previous
(3) Garages or other structures appurtenant to buildings described under subdivision (a), of woodframe construction not more than two stories and basement in height. Same as Previous
(4) Agricultural and ranch buildings of woodframe construction, unless the building official having jurisdiction deems that an undue risk to the public health, safety, or welfare is involved. Same as Previous
(b) If any portion of any structure exempted by this section deviates from substantial compliance with conventional framing requirements for woodframe construction found in the most recent edition of Title 24 of the California Code of Regulations or tables of limitation for woodframe construction, as defined by the applicable building code duly adopted by the local jurisdiction or the state, the building official having jurisdiction shall require the preparation of plans, drawings, specifications, or calculations for that portion by, or under the responsible control of, a licensed architect or registered engineer. The documents for that portion shall bear the stamp and signature of the licensee who is responsible for their preparation. Substantial compliance for purposes of this section is not intended to restrict the ability of the building officials to approve plans pursuant to existing law and is only intended to clarify the intent of Chapter 405 of the Statutes of 1985. Same as Previous
5706 (a) A structural engineer, defined as a registered civil engineer who has been authorized to use the title structural engineer under the provisions of Chapter 7 (commencing with Section 6700), insofar as he or she practices the profession for which he or she is registered, is exempt from the provisions of this chapter, except that a structural engineer may not use the title “registered interior designer,” unless he or she holds a certificate of registration as required in this chapter. Structural Engineer
b) A professional engineer registered to practice engineering under the provisions of Chapter 7 (commencing with Section 6700), insofar as he or she practices the profession for which he or she is registered, is exempt from the provisions of this chapter, except that a professional engineer may not use the title “registered interior designer,” unless he or she holds a certificate of registration as required in this chapter. Professional Engineers as Proscribed
(c) A civil engineer authorized to use that title under the provisions of Chapter 7 (commencing with Section 6700), insofar as he or she practices the profession for which he or she is registered, is exempt from the provisions of this chapter, except that a civil engineer may not use the title “registered interior designer,” unless he or she holds a certificate of registration as required in this chapter. Civil Engineer
5707. This chapter shall not be construed as authorizing a licensed contractor to perform design services beyond those described in Section 5705.
5708. This chapter does not prohibit a person from furnishing either alone or with contractors, if required by Chapter 9 (commencing with Section 7000), labor and materials, with or without plans, drawings, specifications, instruments of service, or other data covering such labor and materials to be used for any of the following: Interior Designers, Interior Decorators, NKBA, General Contractor, Building Designer, Home Stagers and Redesigners
(a) For nonstructural or nonseismic storefronts, interior alterations or additions, fixtures, cabinetwork, furniture, or other appliances or equipment. Same as Previous
(b) For any nonstructural or nonseismic work necessary to provide for their installation. Same as Previous
(c) For any nonstructural or nonseismic alterations or additions to any building necessary to or attendant upon the installation of those storefronts, interior alterations or additions, fixtures, cabinetwork, furniture, appliances, or equipment, provided those alterations do not change or affect the structural system or safety of the building. Same as Previous
Comment by Bruce Goff | May 18, 2008 |
How unique that there is a letter that says that building departments will allow submittal….since the majority will not even review…. now thats a list we do have and will provide.
Comment by Bruce Goff | May 18, 2008 |
Bruce,
>> The second one is that if you are going to give scope of practice to anyone there has to be linkage to the oversight and regulation. <> Seems that the public has been left out of this discussion. Should they not have a place to go should issues arise? <> The only truly legitimate reasons for government regulation of any business are to protect the public from dangers to health and safety or fraud. But those who want to legislate their competition out of business constantly misuse those principles – with never-ending efforts by some interior designers to restrict competition for clients through state licensing being another example.” <<
I totally agree with this statement – and that’s why it’s on the front page of the CADAL website. It’s rather radically inconsistent with your own message, but thanks for highlighting it!
Comment by Wendy Hoechstetter | May 18, 2008 |
After reading these comments, I had the strangest urge to break out the whiskey.
Comment by brentwilliams | May 18, 2008 |